Posts by Half banana

11

Interesting find in the bible last night

by Crazyguy in

so i was reading genesis chapter 10 and 11 to see how it explains the man who supposedly is the offspring of noah and he and his offspring become the nation known as egypt.

in some bibles they actually call him egypt.

well as i was reading chapter 10 i noticed something.

Half banana

It's just a story of explanation for the illiterate, it has little bearing on reality!

Mizraim, the son of Ham is usually understood to refer to Upper and lower Egypt, drawn from the Heb. and Aramaic noun Mizr.

Bible writers like all their contemporaries had no clue as to the remoteness of human history, and neither did they read transcripts of the well documented chronicles of Egypt to find out. Researched history is a relatively recent thing if you think of the Enlightenment as recent. Hence the flood myth was placed at a date plausible to the uninformed listeners of the Hebrew writings.

What fools we were to believe not only that it was true but divine in origin. We are late developers...

150

Start A Butterfly Garden!

by Bonsai in

jw
friends

time to take a break from debating religion.

take in a breath of fresh air and be healed by the wonders of nature around you.. how many of you have a garden?

how many have a nice flower patch to go with your vegetable garden?

Half banana

Ye gods! I tried to post two pics at one posting and failed...now they come tumbling out...

I have to admit an advantage in gardening since I am a landscape designer, which means that every day, I have been thinking about art and nature for many years.

What is true is the pleasure we can all get from the simplest things in the natural world which cost us nothing, observing the seasons, birds animals insects trees and plants.

I like Bonsai's comment that the Swallowtail butterflies swarm in his garden! They are rare in England, they only live in one location in the low lying fen country of Norfolk over here. Where actually do you live Bonsai? (I assume Japan)

37

Just realized they changed maybe the most important scripture in the bible.

by Crazyguy in

i just read the scripture then went and checked in thier older bible and it read the same so i check the greek interlinear and yes they changed john 3:16 .

the verse reads "all who believe in him should not perish but have everlasting life" the cult version says "exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life".. so not only do they say one must exercise faith meaning having to work for it but also they changed should not perish but having everlasting life to might not be destroyed again making a caveat where one does not exist.

just to add to the point verse 18 in both bibles says the one having faith is not judged, totally blowing up thier version of 16 but of course they change 18 to say exercising faith too but it makes little difference, since it says not judged.

Half banana

Martin Luther was wrong! It is perfectly easy to distinguish faith from the works associated with faith.

In the absence of other translators rendering the text in question as “exercising faith” as opposed to “believe,” I conclude that in this instance the JW org have doctored the translation to suit their own interests. It thereby becomes a snub to the “just believe in Jesus” movements. JWs very much want to tell you that they have the works to show that they are doing a worldwide preaching work.

The whole of the Bible was written before the Enlightenment. That meant that the holders of power used any text or provocation, deceit or privilege to keep down the powerless. The motivation for enlightenment values was driven by the urge to destroy corrupt authority by the monarchy and Church. In a sense the western world woke up although it has taken a century or two to realize the application of Enlightenment ideals.

My point is that Bible values are not congruent with modern ethics. The notion of believing as far as the scriptures are concerned, is the primitive tribal one of loyalty to a group with which one can identify. In the same way that loyalty, before the coming of the nation state, was to one's tribal lord. You supported him and he defended you from your enemies. You "believed" in your lord. This was the familiar basis to the Biblical application of belief and faith, the religious notion being drawn from the tribal politics of the masses from countless past generations.

So “belief” was and remains a religious marker or token for both loyalty and personal identity within any religious community. Religious “belief” like tribal loyalty was a matter of pride, it was not supported by reason or evidence, more by a factor of human geography.

Beliefs were for primitives,"knowledge" is the infinitely better modern approach for the benefit of all.

24

When did the governing body go from 12 to 7 members?

by Tameria2001 in

i have been out and away from that cult since 2001. back then there were 12 members of the governing body, and now i'm learning that number has come down to 7. when did this change take place, and what was their reason for dropping the number?.

Half banana

At this stage of the decline of the JW org it would make sense to have as few GB members as possible.

First, in answer to the why of your question; the old guard; the generation of 1914 who would "never die in this system of things"... have all now died. This is completely in keeping with the historical truthfulness of the Watchtower predictions and has left a team of seven zombies who are determined to keep alive the sacred cow which was the Watchtower organisation.

Second, it is easier to control and reach agreement with seven minds than it would be for twelve.

Third, the chances now of new untested members awakening to TTATT are very high. Such a situation would rapidly destabilise the already weakened organisation and be a trigger for the rank and file to follow suite.

Fourth, why share the privileges and financial perks with more freeloaders and thereby dilute the benefits?

Having said that it is clear from the collection of 'Santa's little helpers' that in the event of the death of the present crew there is no shortage of wannabees.

37

Just realized they changed maybe the most important scripture in the bible.

by Crazyguy in

i just read the scripture then went and checked in thier older bible and it read the same so i check the greek interlinear and yes they changed john 3:16 .

the verse reads "all who believe in him should not perish but have everlasting life" the cult version says "exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life".. so not only do they say one must exercise faith meaning having to work for it but also they changed should not perish but having everlasting life to might not be destroyed again making a caveat where one does not exist.

just to add to the point verse 18 in both bibles says the one having faith is not judged, totally blowing up thier version of 16 but of course they change 18 to say exercising faith too but it makes little difference, since it says not judged.

Half banana

I do suspect that the leadership of the JW org are so arrogant as to take it upon themselves to alter the Bible text to further their own deluded interests. They do this after awarding themselves immortal life with Christ and Jehovah for their efforts in being God's exclusive channel of communication.

Put this in a psychiatric situation and the psychosis becomes apparent.

They feel empowered by their own delusions.

12

How do i keep seeing my daughter when she turns 18

by agnosticnow in

hi.i have a 13 year old daughter that i still have for a limited time as she comes to stay about one night a month at present.the law here in australia is on my side in that the australian governments stand is that the child needs regular access to both parents .

i am currently arranging for mediation to have her more often .

her mother can not stand that i am living with another woman and doesn't want her here .

Half banana

I recognize your concern and one night per month isn't very long is it Agnosticnow? But rather than worrying about the future relationship, would it not be best to make sure you have a good welcoming, close and loving relationship now?

Of course you are concerned about losing her to the JW cult, while that is quite understandable, the main concern surely is the long term welfare of your daughter, not your needy relationship with her later on? Believe me I do understand as I have two JW children.

For her to flourish as an adult she needs to be loved, confident, kind, educated and able to think straight. Can she see these things in you?

Without overtly instructing her you might awaken her curiosity, you can leave a trail of ideas over the years, which she might want to find an answer to by herself. One might be the antiquity of humankind. The archaeology shows us to be at least 150,000 years old with the understanding that we were also here a very long time before that. Get her to think about Neanderthals, how on earth does that fit in with (fairy) tales such as Adam and Eve? Leave open questions about the stories in the Bible; are they folk tales or true historical accounts? (The flood is laughable, and scholarship has shown there was no literal Biblical exodus of Jews from Egypt.)

Encourage her personal growth otherwise the JW org will stamp her down... and always encourage her education including discussing school matters with her if you feel comfortable with that.

The main thing though is that she gets your complete love and that she grows up a confident woman knowing that her real mother (at least) loves her unconditionally. From that secure platform she will be better able to make good decisions on religion and family.

16

JW Acumen & Education = NO VALUE IN THE REAL WORLD

by Black Man in

jw
friends

having been out of the cult for a few years now, i can finally sit back and accurately access the good, bad and the ugly, especially as it relates to education and having a sense of self-worth and realizing your potential.

in my opinion, religion is a total crock, but at least in some religions there is at least some value that you can translate your experiences and education gained in such into the real world.

for example, the mormons have their own accredited university where you can obtain a degree and you can actually put that down on your resume and use it in the real world.

Half banana

Agreed Keyser... the JW org sets people up to fail outside of their own repressive culture.

Completely agree with you Black Man, Watchtower information is worthless and even worse than worthless because it is misleading and stunts personal growth as a consequence of having believed it.

Once stunted it is harder to put on more growth...

When will the world AND JWs learn how damaging JW belief is?

150

Start A Butterfly Garden!

by Bonsai in

jw
friends

time to take a break from debating religion.

take in a breath of fresh air and be healed by the wonders of nature around you.. how many of you have a garden?

how many have a nice flower patch to go with your vegetable garden?

Half banana

This one mid June with roses out and the yellow flags still giving a good show.

22

If Apostates Were Allowed To Stay In The Congregations...

by JW_Rogue in

my wife was playing the "stay loyal" convention that she taped the other day and i noticed the brother said something that wasn't in the outline.

during one of the talks friday on shunning he said "can you imagine if apostates were allowed to stay in the congregations?

the congregations would be a garbage heap instead of the spiritual paradise they are now.

Half banana

Good points TD.

If I were made to remain in the cong, I would have to be bound and gagged as Outlaw suggests and then I would still blow a gasket if I was forced to hear the speakers.

I feel very sorry for those who suffer this cruelty for the sake of their spouses.

13

Another Egyptian relic discovered at Hazor, northern Israel

by fulltimestudent in

it doesn't look significant, but it is - the jerusalem post reports:.

the finding – coupled with a sphinx fragment of the egyptian king mycerinus (who ruled egypt in the 25th century bce), discovered at the site by the research team three years ago – are the only monumental egyptian statues found so far in second millennium contexts in the entire levant.the discovery of these two statues in the same building currently being excavated by the research team indicates the special importance of the building, which was likely the administrative palace of the ruler of the city, as well as that of the entire city of hazor.shlomit bechar, a doctoral student at the institute of archaeology, who has been excavating at hazor for a decade, is the dig’s co-director, and oversees the main excavation area.during the course of nearly 30 years of excavations, fragments of 18 different egyptian statues – both royal and private – dedicated to egyptian kings and officials, including two sphinxes, were discovered at hazor.“most of these statues were found in layers dated to the late bronze age (15th-13th centuries bce), corresponding to the new kingdom in egypt,” said ben-tor.“this is the largest number of egyptian statues found so far in any site in the land of israel, although there is no indication that hazor was one of the egyptian strongholds in southern canaan, nor of the presence of an egyptian official at hazor during the late bronze age.”ben-tor added that most egyptian statues found at hazor date to egypt’s “middle kingdom” (19th-18th centuries bce), a time when hazor did not yet exist.“it thus seems that the statues were sent by an egyptian king in the ‘new kingdom’ as official gifts to the king of hazor, or as dedications to a local temple, regardless of their already being ‘antiques,’” he said.“this is not surprising, considering the special status of the king of hazor, who was the most important king in southern canaan at the time.

the extraordinary importance of hazor in the 15th-13th centuries bce is indicated also by the biblical reference to hazor as ‘the head of all those kingdoms’ (joshua 11:10).”all the statues at the site were found broken into pieces and scattered over a large area, he noted.“clear signs of mutilation indicate that most of them were deliberately and violently smashed, most probably in the course of the city’s final conquest and destruction sometime in the 13th century b.c.e,” said ben-tor.“the deliberate mutilation of statues of kings and dignitaries accompanying the conquest of towns is a well-known practice in ancient times (i samuel 5:1-4; isaiah 11:9), as well as in our time.”the hazor excavations, which began in the mid-1950s under the direction of the late professor yigael yadin, are carried out on behalf of hu.

Half banana

It is worth knowing that the first mention of 'Israel' is about 1200 BCE. They earlier comprised groups of assorted and dispossessed families (the Ebiru) from all over the surrounding territories looking for the anywhere they could scrape a living. Nobody would choose the uplands of central Canaan as an ideal territory, it was and remains desert conditions, but it did support goat herding and much later in the Iron Age olive oil production and both commodities were were traded with the all powerful Egypt.

I find it interesting to consider how completely skewed the Bible propaganda is. Israel hardly ever mentions the elephant in the room which was Egypt. The reason being that they had little material culture to brag about which implied to them that their gods were not powerful like the Egyptian ones. The archaeology of Israel shows that over time a consistent state of impoverishment existed and only occasionally is quality sculpture unearthed like the ones you have presented FTS...and then it comes from their overlords; the Egyptians.

For those interested in the early settlements in Canaan and the origins of the Hebrews and Israelites, I recommend: Thomas L Thompson, Early History of the Israelite People From the Written and Archaeological Sources, E.J.Brill 1992.